“The Catterpiller on the Leaf/Repeats to thee thy Mothers grief” (William Blake)
Allen Ginsberg on William Blake’s “The Auguries of Innocence”. continues from here
AG: Now, here’s another one of the great ones that’s endlessly repeated:
“The Catterpiller on the Leaf/Repeats to thee thy Mothers grief”
Now how does that come about? That’s amazing. ‘Cause it’s really true. I mean I feel that in relation to my own mother and in relation to this image. “The Catterpiller (appears to be) about whether or not you want to be born. But can anybody interpret that? – “The Catterpiller on the Leaf/Repeats to thee thy Mothers grief”? You all, have you, how many of you have heard of that one before? Anybody ever hear of that one before? Really? That line, “The Catterpiller on the Leaf/Repeats to thee thy Mothers grief” – how many have heard it before? One..[Allen starts counting]
Student: In the context of the poem, or out of the context…?
AG: Out of the context, in the context, anywhere – One, two, three, four, five. And this is the first time you… six, seven. So this is the first time most of you have heard this couplet. Wow! It must be mind-blowing. I wish I were you. Boy are you lucky. Boy are you lucky! Imagine getting a bar of gold like that put in your mind. That’s a great thing. Well, how would you interpret it?
Student: Everything large and small (is interconnected)
AG: Yeah.
Student: So, even a caterpillar can remind you of your mother’s grief.
AG: Yeah.
Student: So (that’s something) to keep within your mind – either that or they haven’t (fully metamorphosed yet).. the caterpillar can feel a mother’s grief..
AG: Yeah. That’s one way. There may be something about, what.. what’s the process? The caterpillar to the chrysalis, do you know, Bataan (sic)?
Bataan Faigao: Well the caterpillar becomes a butterfly.
AG: Yeah. So the caterpillar gives birth to the butterfly from the womb of the, what do you call it, the caterpillar builds a bower, or a cocoon, right? A chrysalis. And then out of the chrysalis comes a butterfly. So, in that sense, if you’re the butterfly, the caterpillar is your momma. That might be. I don’t know. But that the caterpillar flies away as a butterfly, leaves you, too, you were saying. Is that the point? So that’s true, too. So at some point the caterpillar is intimate with the birth but then disappears on ya, so that’s another way. Maybe that there’s something of the chrysalis and the womb have something to do with each other, I don’t know. Or the mother dies, you know, the caterpillar, the momma, dies and flies away. “Thy mother’s grief”. (“Thy mother…”) – why has the mother got grief? Is it on account of the kid?
Several Students: The loss of the child.
AG: The loss of the child, yeah. So it would be the butterfly has a child that flies away, you think?
Student: (Witnesses its death)
AG: Sees the death of the child? Yeah.
Student: (is pained by the loss)
AG: Yeah. So then, if we interpret it one-on-one, it would be, the caterpillar is the mother of the butterfly?
Student: (The mother – Thy mother”) become a butterfly.
AG: Yeah.
Student: I think, I think that, if the mother (experiences this) the whole nature of the mother and the child is this inevitable pain, because it’s, you know, it’s part of the body, whether it’s human or butterfly or caterpillar, so there’s (the experience) of death (the experience of a) kind of death. And then. you have to have this child and nurture it and nurture it and nurture it and nurture it so that it can someday (flourish) but (then it leaves you) and your whole purpose is gone. So it’s (tragic)
AG: Yeah. Let’s see, where is that again? The caterpillar repeats, that’s the word – “repeats”. “Repeats thy Mothers grief.” It’s something you really can think on, it’s really suggestive. We’ve got all these different angles on it. I’ve never fully understood it, but I feel the emotion of it quite strongly. And, part of it’s also I think the fact that the caterpillar is so vulnerable and smushy, you know, you can wound it and, you know, and squash, squash it. You know, it’s like a, like a fetus, almost. Also. You know, if you’ve ever had a dream, dreams of, of trying to rescue a fetus and then … I have that constantly, and then rescuing a fetus but managing to damage it in the rescue. I don’t know if that’s a common dream or not, maybe … maybe that’s me!. Uh, okay.
to be continued