Allen Ginsberg on William Blake’s Vala or The Four Zoas continues from here
Student: Allen?
AG: Yeah.
Student: Since this is Vala, Night the First… does (this mean) that this it’s… it’s (all) from an emotional perspective, since, you know, (the Mother Goddess), Vala (is representing sensitivity), desire, so that everything that’s seen in this chapter… it’s going to be favoring the emotional sensitive, the….
AG: Well, Alicia Ostriker has a division night-by-night of what she thinks each night relates to, and she says this first night relates to the Fall – the Fall of Man – and chaos.
Student: And that’s … and Vala comes in because it’s an emotional breakdown or something?
AG: Well, Vala, actually, I think means the whole veil of Maya itself. What would Vala be? Vala would be almost like the … who’s Vala’s projector)?
Student: (Luvah) Luvah‘s Emanation.
AG: Yeah. Yeah the Emanation of emotion.
Student: Right.
AG: Wife. The Shadowy Female, Nature. The veil of nature. Natural religion, worship of trees as being Gods, Ruha – does anybody know the word “Ruha” – it’s a Gnostic word, Hebrew?. It’s the Mother Nature seen as evil. Ruha – or Rahab in Blake, I think. You (can) look through a really interesting book by Dr. Hans Jonas called The Gnostic Religions, which gives the Western Gnostic versions of these kind of thoughts – seeing nature as evil or seeing woman as evil – seeing the female as evil, because separated from the male. So seeing the whole system as schizophrenia. Seeing the whole system of appearances as schizophrenia, and mother – external Mother Nature – seen as separated from us, seen as some kind of a Ulro -we were talking about Ulro, like dead material nature.
Student: Because according to the Dictionary they say that she’s responsible for Albion‘s fall for the Fall.
AG: (Yes), Vala is..
Student: Vala is (not the leading character).
AG: According to where?
Student: That’s Damon.
AG: That’s Damon’s view?
Student: That’s Damon’s view. You have to be….
AG: Yeah. What does Damon say? Do you have it there?
Student: Yeah.
AG: Some little statement by him?
Student (quoting S Foster Damon): “Vala first appears in the Four Zoas, which originally was to be called “Vala” or “The Book of Vala”. However, she is not the leading character of the epic, although she is the prime cause of Albion’s fall.”
“Among the Flowers of Beulah walk’d the Eternal Man & saw Vala the lilly of the desart melting in high noon; upon her bosom in sweet bliss he fainted…. There he revel’d in delight among the Flowers. Vala was pregnant & brought forth Urizen, Prince of Light, first born of Generation.”
AG: (Yes) Urizen is brought forth by … so the veil of Maya – of material nature brought forth, gave birth to, Urizen? That’s pretty funny.
Student: In this version.
AG: Yeah, in this version. It would be vice-versa another time.
Student: Right.
AG: So he’s just making up a system as he’s (going along).
Student: I’m asking why do you think they made him (want to..)
AG: Oh, the whole thing is Vala.
Student: I mean the whole book.
AG: Because it’s a description of this fallen state.
Student: Falling into the vale of tears ..
AG: Yeah. How we got born. The human illusion.
to be continued