Allen Ginsberg on The Marriage of Heaven and Hell continues from here
AG (quoting Blake): “The rat, the mouse, the fox, the rabbet; watch the roots, the lion, the tyger, the horse, the elephant, watch the fruits.” – There’s a picture of them watching the roots and the fruits in Plate VIII.
“What is now proved was once, only imagin’d”? There’s this guy standing there looking up at the bare blasted tree bough. Dig?
Peter Orlovsky: I don’t know about that Allen. I’ve had rats in my prunes.
AG: Now, wait a minute. A rat watches. The rat.
Peter Orlovsky: They eat my prunes
AG: Eat your what?
Peter Orlovsky: I’ve had the rat or the mouse or both eat my prunes.
AG: But we’re talking about their relation to the tree. To the tree or plant. Not inside the house. This is their relation to a root or a tree he’s talking about. The roots and the fruits.
Peter Orlovsky: Uh-huh.
AG: The big thing – the big lions, horses, elephants, watch the fruits. The rat, mouse, fox, rabbit watch the roots. I’m actually not sure what he means symbolically by roots.
Peter Orlovsky: Rats go after fruits.
AG: Wait a minute. It’s symbolic. Come on. I’m not sure what he means by the symbolism of roots and fruits, however. Except what he’s got there, confusingly, is neither a rat, mouse, fox, rabbit, lion, tyger, horse or elephant, but a human being, looking at this tree. And I think there’s a commentary on that by (Geoffrey) Keynes, it may be. Or maybe … let’s see. Who’s got that? I didn’t look at that. This is (Plate) VIII?
Student: In The Illuminated (Blake) it says “a foolish man is watching an empty-handed tree with neither roots or fruits …”
AG: Yeah. “… or, as Everett Frost (sic) suggests” it might be “the adjacent proverb, “What is now proved was once, only imagin’d,” may be intended” by this man watching the tree. “(T)he watching figure, a boy, imagines what the dead tree proves. Wise watchers (lion, tiger, horse, elephant) are marked by a cluster of acorns, at left, and a branch of hazelnuts.”
That’s an odd idea. The fruits. On the left is, yes, there are fruits there. Hazel nuts on the left. Under the rat. Under the “the” of the rat is a bow of a fruit (tree or) nuts. The fruit of the tree.
Then further on … is there something?
Peter Orlovsky: Blake knew hazel nut?
AG: Huh?
Peter Orlovsky: Then Blake knew….
AG: Well, I don’t know.
Peter Orlovsky: … hazel nuts?
AG: Yeah, naturally. Naturally in those days, yeah.
to be continued