We had been serializing, a few months back, (see here), transcripts from a July 1985 conversation that took place at Naropa Institute, between Allen Ginsberg, Gregory Corso, and William Burroughs, a panel discussion, uncensored recollection, on the occasion of a William Burroughs Conference that Burroughs attended. Part two of the conversation follows, continuing here.
GC: Jacques Stern – That was my pain to William Burroughs. I laid.. I bought it, I carried (it) up to his room, dumped it on his bed… This man, who’s a Rothschild, got polio. He’s very smart. He’s a junkie. I’d just heard about him..
WSB: Not any more.
GC: Not anymore junkie, no, he’s off that shit. (Then again..) So.. I said, “Are you Jacques Stern?”, He said, “Yeah”. I said, “I want to introduce you to a real sharp man”. He left his drink (and I watched this), “Come on”. And he gets his fuckin’ chauffeur, And we stop at 9 Git de Coeur. And I carry him up those stairs..
AG: Polio
GC: Huh?
AG: Polio
WSB: Polio, it was..
GC: Polio.. Yeah..
WSB: He had to walk on…
GC: Carry him up and then dump him on his bed.
WSB: Yeah, Yeah.
GC: Well, was it bad in life, you knowing the man? I mean, come on.
WSB: Oh no, he was.. he was.. he was quite a character, the Mad Baron..
GC: Yeah
WSB: ..(and) he was very generous. My god, he really was a cheque-grabber!
GC: Yeah
WSB: And.. you know..
GC: Alright, so Jacques Stern turns out, right?
WSB: And then when he was on the floor, Gregory, you.. I had to get him, take him to my place, you wouldn’t have (him). ”I can’t carry him up and down the stairs” – Those were your very words when poor Jacques was on the floor. Remember that?
GC: Right
WSB: Yeah
GC: Well, you should’ve..
WSB: Well, I.. I couldn’t.. I couldn’t handle it.
GC: You couldn’t do it? What the fuck was I supposed to do? take care of him?
WSB: Every time I’d get him out of there, I’d say “Now you settle somewhere else”, and then I’d get a call, “I can’t stand it”.
AG: Now this is many years later in New York.
WSB: Many years later. When we knew him he had a Bentley and a huge apartment and he was just handing out the hash, and the heroin, cocaine.. everything, you know.. but..
AG: That’s ‘57 again. Yeah, that’s early, ‘58?
WSB: Yeah, around ‘58, ‘59, around in there.
AG: He had gone to Harvard and was a friend of Harry Phipps.. [Editorial note – Harry Phipps? Harry Phipps? – is this the same sexual deviant, many years later relocated to Australia, who became prime suspect in the notorious Beaumont children case?]
GC: …and who was a whizz-kid… (Stern)
AG: …who was of the Marshall Field’s family, and who, Phipps said, bankrolled the play, See The Jaguar, in New York, which was the first play that..
GC: Jimmy Dean
AG: …Jimmy Dean played in, and Harry said that he’d had a love affair with Jimmy Dean at the time.
WSB: I believe it.
AG: ..and who came to my door (a very nice-looking guy)
GC: Oh Jacques Stern has another connection – his godson. Jacques Stern’s woman became my woman, I gave her a baby, Max.
WSB: That’s right
GC (to WSB): And Max is your godson, right?
WSB: Yes. You married Jacques Stern’s ex- wife or..
GC: Right
WSB: …girlfriend, anyway.
GC: Whatever
WSB: “The Baroness”. Sure.
to be continued
Audio for the above can be heard here, beginning at the beginning of the tape and concluding approximately four minutes in.