William Burroughs Conversation – 4

Gregory Corso and Allen Ginsberg, 1989 – photo: Pamela Hansen

Allen Ginsberg and Gregory Corso on William Burroughs continuing from here

AG: So, we’re in media res, 1953. It turns out that Junkie was published… then? – I didn’t know that, I thought it was earlier.

WSB: No no no.

AG: It was accepted earlier then?

WSB:   Maybe it was accepted in.. I don’t know when it was accepted

AG When was the time of composition of Junkie (because I’m fuzzy on that)

WSB: Around 1950, that was the time of composition. … in Mexico City.

AG; Okay now, as I remember, the manuscript of Junkie arrived to my house in Paterson, or/and in apartments in New York, by letter, a lot of it, a lot of the Junkie manuscript…was part of our correspondence originally. From 1950 on, was that?, or earlier?

WSB: Yeah, well, 1950 and it didn’t take very long, as a matter of fact, it was about five or six months.

AG Uh-huh. The complete?

WSB:  Certainly

AG: Writing and editing?

WSB: Yes, I mean, well, more or less.  I  don’t think it was..  I’m not sure of the editing. But, certainly, the writing didn’t take more than that.

AG: And do you have any recollection when it was accepted by Wyn, by A.A.Wyn?  Ace Books?

WSB: No.

AG (to Ted Morgan): Do you know that Ted? .. when, when?

Ted  Morgan: (It was..)

GC: He don’t know shit!  He’s the guy who (said I was high). when I first met you, (and) it happened later..

Ted Morgan:  (I was..)

GC: Oh you were just kidding? They don’t know!. Wake up, kid. They’ve given you some kind of shot that you know.

Ted Morgan:  Pardon, pardon..  When you first met William it was in Allen’s apartment.

GC: Yeah. Right, on 7th Street, and he’s cutting his yage, and looking at me, and jealous, because he loved Allen, and I was a cute handsome Italian boy.

WSB:  Had all your teeth.

AG: Well let’s see now, I had met Gregory in (19)50.. Bill was staying with me on 206 East 7th Street, right off Tompkins Square which is now (sic) the new-wave punk center of New York, near Avenue A (and between B & C, we were living). Gregory appeared one day, invited over (after a long period of absence – I seem to remember we didn’t.. I hadn’t seen you for a little while.

GC: I stayed there with you!  That’s the time that you told everybody that you had sex with me and it wasn’t so!

AG: No

GC: This is what happened.  I’d gotten out of prison….

AG: Wait a minute… be careful now!  Are we talking about (19)53-(19)53 on East 7th Street? or are we talking on 14th Street near the Port Authority Building, you’re talking about?

GC: I’m talking to you on 7th Street!

AG: Okay.

GC: I get out of prison in (19)50 and I meet you in a dyke bar. And the girl that I…

AG: The Pony Stable

GC:  ..say I’m wanting to fuck, you say, “I’m the guy who’s fucking her”, and you take me up there and I fuck her. That’s Dusty Moreland – Remember?

AG; Yes.  She doesn’t like her name mentioned in public.

GC  Par-don! – You took me out to eat one night in a place called The Four Seasons and I asked you, ”Are you queer?”  And you said “Would that make any difference”?

AG: No, I looked you in the eyes, and I said, “Yes, Gregory.”

GC:  And to me, how did I answer it?  I said, “That’s alright. But in prison I couldn’t be.  You’d suffer too much for that shit.”

Okay.. So I’m in a bar in 1950, that year, and some black guy says. “Don’t you ever go see Marisol again!” (now, Marisol Escobar, she’ s a great sculptor today. You know about her?  Ever hear about her?)

Ted Morgan: (Certainly)

GC: Alight.. That’s the game. I’m fucking her. Nigger (sic) tells me, “You stay out of the house!” – So I see all the blacks against me in prison, I break the glass of beer in my hand  and I go (right in) his face. I come home to you bleeding and all bad..You put me on the bed and caress me and try to suck my dick! – and then you tried to put your little fat Jewish cock up my asshole!. Can you imagine that!

AG: Quite easily! – Quite easily, yes. And my recollection is that I did do that actually, now that you bring it up. Not only that, you came.

GC:  Well, If I came..  I‘ll  give you that accolade. Sorry!

AG: But I think I had to bend down and blow you at the same time!

GC: Yeah

AG: I had a visual recollection of that but we have opposite,…
GC: Allen, I wouldn’t mind being blown by you, anytime, man, but..
AG: But we’re ignoring our beloved Bill!
GC: No, We’re not ignoring..
WSB: Not ignoring..
GC: He don’t belong here,
WSB: It’s the life and times…
GC: He don’t belong here.  Remember that…
AG: Ok

WSB:  I told you. I told you I was on my own.

GC: Right

AG: Now get to the point…

Audio for the above can be heard here, beginning at approximately six minute in and concluding at approximately eleven minutes in

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