Ginsberg and Corso – 11

Gregory Corso and Allen Ginsberg in conversation continues from here

GC: Well, do you feel Allen, like we’re really talking like two grown-ups now, right?

AG:  Yeah.

GC: Well, come on now, I come see you and ask you for money to buy dope or something, and you gotta yell, or I gotta  yell, or some bullshit..

AG:  But here is a nice new cool literary thing where we’re talking about  “time and eternity”.

GC: Okay okay. Now, I think, you want to clear anything on this Miles book?

AG: Yeah, well I just wanted to make it very clear – because when I said.. when I started to try and rebalance the view of Kerouac…

GC: A lot of people think he was treated unfairly.

AG:  Well,  and I’m agreeing,  and but.. very definitely. And then your response was that I was being too generous and it’s too mealy-mouthed generous, but I was just trying to talk very simple (talk)

GC: I said you were being generous by giving them your file(s)

AG:  Oh, no, I see.. I thought you meant. You see..     because Miles was complaining that I was always too generous with my praise of others..

GC: Oh!

AG: …and I think that’s sort of a like a buzzword  and is corny, the view – because..

GC: You have, you got to admit you have benefited people in need. I mean, that’s a fact, that’s there, that’s good.

AG: That’s irrelevant. People have benefited me too.

GC: It’s good that good things are said about a man in life. Believe me, a lot of times what they have to say about poets is always  something negative and draggy, Al.

AG; Right.  Well I think one interesting thing about our community…

GC:  I mean, You are a credit to poetry, Al!

AG: Oh yeah, that’s all I need! – But one interesting thing about our…gang was the fact that we were actually friends, literary friends, personal friends..

GC: Who? this guy? this guy, Miles?

AG: No, you!

GC: Oh yeah.. What about him?

AG:  You, Kerouac. It was, like, a really, strong collaboration and friendship and fun, and travel

GC: Yes, it all happened

AG: …and sexy..

GC: Yes, it all happened

AG:…and it wasn’t people competing with each other

GC:  But don’t you see how fast it happened!  Now look with Orlovsky... now this is what really spooks… Little did I know that it would culminate to this moment where they would do such a book and then have our lives laid out and that’s the ball-game, guys!

AG: Yeah.

GC: Had I known then I would have maybe been a little more careful or sort of hesitant  “Hey, be careful what you say and what you do in this life”   What a joy that would have been!  So its like, you know, there’s a God watching you, when you’re dead, you go up and get Judgment Day –  “It’s alright it’s all you did, there you go, look at you” . So when I read that Ginsberg book and I see myself  in it, it’s almost like that – That ain’t right, no way. There’s something very wrong there”, I think.. I might be able to..

AG:  But the biography ain’t God. The biography ain’t God (so if it seems like…)

GC: Right. There you go. But, nonetheless, that’s what, at the las,t they lay out as truth,  that’s the ball-game laid out now.

AG: Okay, so what is truth?

GC: Ah!

AG: Truth is as many people as there are.

GC:  Ah so..

AG: Everybody’s got a different set of ..

GC: I never liked..

AG: …set of information. Everybody has a  different consciousness. The objective.. You know.. in reality, outside of our eyes, ears, nose and senses, there’s no color there’s no sound, there are vibrations of light and there are vibrations in the air which our ears make into sound and our eyes make into color but the shapes and the coloring are all subjective. So there are as many color-sets as there are beings and so there are as many histories as there are beings and no one of those histories is the objective reality, neither mine nor the biographer’s, nor yours, but the composite of them all is really interesting.

to be continued

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