Student: Would it do any good to know what these rhythms are if you don’t have the capability of voicing that feeling or that emotion that ends up being one of these.,
AG: Well, I think that these cadences and these emotions are natural, so I don’t think that anybody has the problem of feeling them, and, in private, voicing them, (either to themselves, or to another person). I think everybody.. I think they’re in the range of everybody’s emotional spectrum. You may not feel so about it but you’ve got that delicacy, Sure. Don’t you? – dont you feel (that way)…?
Student: Yeah, but it starts with the emotion
AG: Yes, of course, it starts with the emotion..
Student: And then, somewhat later, quite arbitrarily..
AG: ..subjectified in that cadence. And then somewhat later, a professor says you notice that that cadence has this regularity and you can count it. So I’m just saying what the professor said, and pointing out that it does relate back to an original emotion, and saying “that’s just to make you conscious that you’ve got those emotions” – or, I’m teaching that to make you conscious that those emotions exist and are proper (in fact, they’re the goldmine, they’re the goldmine to the expression of poetry, and you might even be able to approach the emotion by imitating the cadence (in other words, imitating the cadence might catalyze the actual emotion or catalyze a liberation of that emotion). It’s like when you go to study drumming , people know how to do drumming naturally but then if you go to Sompa or Jerry Granelli , they teach a certain archetype of drumming rhythms and you recognize that you’ve been playing them all along and you’ve been hearing them all along, but now you can do it any time you want, you know. [Allen starts drumming] – like,….what is it? what’s that?, Latin American..?
Student: (a one-two?)
AG: Yeah, how does it go?
Student (beats out drum rhythms)
AG: Okay, that’s one we all know. Could you do that, unless you were taught to do that, regularly? [drums again]… I’m not.. .I can’t do it [continues to attempt the rhythm]. So if somebody shows me, I know how to do it .No… but he was saying.. what the Afro-Cuban beat is.. one-two-three, one-two, one-two-three, one-two [Allen beats it out] – Is that right? – No? well, how does it go?
Student: [demonstrates] reverse…the other. way [claps, demonstrates drum rhythms]
AG: Yeah – “Goddam fink, fuck you! ” “Goddam fink, fuck you!’ “
– Okay, We’ll continue next time with… who’s in the bag next? – Marvell, certainly, you’ve got to get Marvell, Lovelace, Cowley, Crashaw, – from Suckling to Marvell through Vaughan, Suckling to Vaughan.
[Audio for the above can be heard here, beginning at approximately eighty-two-and-three-quarter minutes in, and concluding at the end of the tape]